dib:

Your website states you created "POP," in part, to respond to the dearth of positive portrayals of African American men.  Why did you choose to focus on fathers?

CR:

Traditionally, fathers were considered a huge part of our foundation; but to a large degree, for numerous reasons, we’ve lost that perspective.  As we move forward, one of the most obvious ways to heal is to focus on our foundation.  Mothers and fathers are our base.  We tend to focus on mothers a lot, which is great; but there’s very, very little attention given to black fathers; and it’s needed.  To not begin there, is like planting seeds without soil.  To move forward, we have to start with our base.  We don’t celebrate black fathers enough, so I decided to focus on them.  I wanted to fulfill a need – an immediate need.

dib:

Did you first take photographs that emerged into a collection and eventually the book, or did you set out to take photographs specifically for the book?

CR:

Actually the first portion of that is correct.  I have some friends in California, James and Lyssy Wilcox, who were forever asking me to take pictures of their family.  At every occasion they wanted photographs.  James, who is also in the book, is a wonderful father.  I took a lot of pictures of him.  Then other friends started to call, and I ended up taking more pictures.  One day, I was sorting through my photographs and I said to my husband, “You know, I have a lot of photographs of black fathers.”  People always talk about how there aren’t any black fathers, but I know a whole bunch of wonderful dads.”  So, I concluded that I needed to put together some kind of book, or exhibit, or something. The book pretty much came from looking at what I had and from not understanding why we fail to acknowledge the fathers that are out there. 

dib:

Did you know all of the men featured in your book beforehand, or did the project progress more-or-less as a free-flow?

CR:

It was mostly free-flow.  You know black folks love to talk.  Word-of-mouth got out, and the phone started ringing, and people made referrals.  I only went with referrals.  I’d ask questions before giving the father a call. I wanted to make sure someone would vouch for the dad, whether it was the child, the teenager or the mother.  I wanted somebody who could say that this is a wonderful father. Then I made it happen. 

dib:

Were you deliberate as to the type of father you photographed and included in your book?

CR:

I wanted to do as many different kinds of fathers as possible.  I wanted a few celebrities, but I didn’t want any one father to overshadow the next.   I wanted everyone to be equally viewed as a wonderful father, whether he’s struggling daily, or has a bunch of money, or is celebrated, or whatever.  I definitely wanted an assortment of different dads from different backgrounds.

dib:

Did you gain any new insights into fatherhood and black men from this project?

CR:

Until I started working on the book, I had no idea how many black fathers are getting up everyday and making the whole parenting thing work.  I know statistics can be skewed, depending on who is doing it and what the point of their research is, blah, blah, blah; but I had no idea … These brothers are walking around individually doing their thing; but when you start seeing them collectively, they’re everywhere.  I mean everywhere.  It got to the point where I started to question the numbers that say there are so few black fathers.  I just don’t see it anymore.  Something definitely needs to change in terms of how we look at our dads. 

dib:

Do you have a favorite portrait among those featured in your book?

CR:

No, I don't.  They're all so special to me.  There’s a back story, something touching or funny that happened with each one.  It’s impossible for me to say that this one is my favorite, because I’d say that about the next one.  I think I may be too close to stand back and appreciate the pictures without recalling what’s behind them. 

I told a friend that I can present the book and talk about the love these guys have for their kids, but there’s nothing like being there. There are all those really tiny moments involved in the day-to-day - moments where a father is brushing teeth or responding to his kid’s runny nose.  That’s what I tried to capture in the book, minuscule moments that mean so much.  I didn’t want this big thing with major lighting and set up; or to make it to be about me as a photographer.  I wanted to stand back and make it about the moment and the relationship

dib:

Does any particular shoot stand out in your mind?

CR:

Each shoot had something special; but what was life-altering about each one was the vulnerability of the fathers.  These black men were so extremely gentle and loving.  We tend to attach certain characteristics to black men, like they’re hardcore, harsh and hard; but these guys were so vulnerable when it came to there kids.  It was just wonderful to watch.

dib:

Did this project make you reflect upon your relationship with your own father?

CR:

I didn’t go down memory lane while I was doing the book; but  "POP" is not only for my father, it’s all about him - not just because he's my father, or a great father, but because of what he taught me.  My father moves through life with his heart as his guide, and this made him an extraordinary father. 

He always made sure that I looked at everything with a healthy perspective. While growing up, he use to tell us that people have parts, and not to judge the whole person based on only one action. 

That’s a huge part of what I want to say with the book.  It’s a celebration of black fathers, but included in that celebration are fathers who might not be present.  It’s for the father who wants to be a better dad, but can’t.  There are all kinds of situations and reasons and scenarios and paths and histories that people have that contribute to their day-to-day decisions or inability to make a decision.  I want to get across that this celebration includes and embraces. 

I always talk about statistics and how we shouldn’t just count numbers, we should count people.  It makes for a different kind of perspective when we stop saying, "there’s this amount of black fathers present."   When we start looking at the person, it changes everything.  This thinking comes from my father.  He raised me to think like that.

dib:

It sounds as though your father is well educated both academically and in his understanding of the human condition.

CR:

I have to say my father (Roland Wiggins) is definitely a brilliant man.  By profession, he was a logician and a music theorist.  He doesn’t call himself a musician, but he very much is.  He’s a pianist, but added logic to that.  He was a professor for many years at University of Massachusetts and Hampshire College and visiting professor at Amherst College and Williams College in New England.  At the University of Massachusetts, he helped a lot of the black people obtain their degrees back in the seventies. 

dib:

What does your father think of the book?

CR:

(Ross erupts into a hearty laugh)  In his silence…I think he’s very, very proud.  I’ve never been able to stump my father, but I think he’s deeply affected by the book; and that’s rare.  He doesn’t talk a lot, but when he does, it’s very profound.  He gets very quiet with the book, and I think it definitely touches a core for him.  In a sense, it’s kind of an alignment with his life’s work – almost like having his child carrying on a portion of his torch.  There’s nothing more rewarding than that; and I assume, he hasn’t said, but I assume he feels a sense of that.

dib:

How has your husband been affected by all this?

CR:

Oh, he loves it.  My husband (Monty Ross) is a filmmaker and he likes being the engine behind everything, making sure everything works smoothly.  He’s almost like my father in that he doesn’t say a lot, but he shows his appreciation by doing things.  He’s always looking to see what he can do to get the book out to everybody.  He’s very excited about the book.

dib:

Assuming your husband is successful in getting "POP" out to the public, what ultimately do you want people to take away from the book?

CR:

I’d love it if people came away with a renewed sense of love for our fathers.  I’d like for people to see them as a collective and to know that they are not only present, but that we have an opportunity to embrace them as a group.  I’m hoping that "POP" is not just a coffee table book, but a part of a movement towards a new perspective on our strengths as a people.  If we start to focus on what we do have, on the love and strength that we have as a people as opposed to what we don’t have, then I think we can take off in directions we don’t yet know are possible – especially for our children.  That’s the biggest thing. 

dib:

When did you decide to become a photographer?

CR:

I was living in L.A., doing commercials and making pretty good money; but I wasn’t loving it.  At the same time, I was still shooting because I loved photography.  I just kept shooting and shooting and shooting.  People kept calling and asking me to shoot their families, and I kept doing that.  Then one day a friend called with an opportunity to shoot a cd cover.  I went to that shoot, and it was so much fun, I decided that that was what I wanted to do for the rest of my life.

dib:

I assume it wasn’t a studio shoot.

CR:

No, it wasn’t.  I’m not really a studio photographer.  It’s kind of artificial for me.  I like a little bit of edge and reality.  The shoot was outside and I loved it.

dib:

When did you first pick up a camera?

CR:

My mother gave me a camera when I was ten years old and I loved it. From day one, my mother has always praised my writing and my photography. I have to give her that credit; but I ran from all that while I went through my teenage years.  Now, here I am, right back to where I began.  When I was acting, I would drag myself out of bed, even though the money was good.  It just wasn’t my love.  But nothing could get me up faster for an early morning than photography.  I did not realize that until I started shooting  and making a living doing it. I just love it. 

dib:

Once you knew you wanted to become a photographer, were there specific steps you took to hone your skills?

CR:

It’s funny; once you’re on your soul’s journey in life, it hits on something.  You can’t get enough of it.   You’re not conscious of it. You’re just doing it. I was constantly shooting, constantly buying and trying new films, constantly on the computer to see what was out there, constantly testing lighting.  I had a hunger for it.  I wanted it.  It wasn’t a conscious thing. 

dib:

What advice would you offer an aspiring young photographer?

CR:

First, I would ask, “What do you love?  What do you have to say? And, what is the best way to say what you have to say?"  Everyone has something to say, something that excites them, or angers them, or moves them; but sometimes we choose careers or paths that have nothing to do with our voice.  It’s easy to pick up the camera and say you love photography, because it’s fun; but that might not be the tool for what you want to say.  Some people may be really good at talking, giving a speech, painting or dancing, and that’s their voice.  If photography is your voice, I think your path will lead you.  You can take a class, you can go to school, or you can do it on your own.  I took some photography classes, but they weren’t as fulfilling as going out and learning by trial and error.  Your voice has to be your guide.  Your heart will take you to where you need to be as long as you follow it.  I really believe that.  If you trust your inner voice, it’s going to take you in the right direction.

dib:

What’s next?

CR:

I have some ideas toying around in my head; but whatever I do, I want to continue to create images that positively affect our children’s perspective of themselves.  In our country, the media is very good at making black kids feel as though they are secondary, as though they are not really valid.  As a parent, I have to be very selective as to the books I pick for my four year old son.  Usually, the main character is blonde, and if there is a black character, it’s usually secondary, or just somebody drawn in the background.  Those subtle messages really have an impact.  There’s that experiment with the two dolls – one black and one white – where all the kids pick the blonde doll.  Well, there’s a reason for that.  I’m not one of those mothers who says, “no TV,” but I am very selective as to what my son watches.

My son likes to watch this program that features hands with painted eyes that go about their day.  The show opens with different colored hands, but if you watch, it’s really about the white hands.  In one episode, the hands were playing in mud.  They didn’t get splashed with bits of mud; they were immersed in mud.  They looked like black hands.  A little while later, they headed back to the house to get cleaned up; and as they did, they were chanting, “Dirty, Dirty, Dirty.”  I’m thinking, “Wow, they’re telling hands that look like black hands that they're dirty. What is that doing to my kid?”  I went flying across the room to change the channel, trying not to make it look too obvious to my son, but those kinds of things have an effect on children.  So, as a photographer, I need to figure out how I can subtly counteract that, or have images that let black kids know they are included. 

There is perspective in everything, and I want our kids to feel like they matter, like they count.  That will always be a part of my work.

dib:

Blessings to you Carol, along your life's journey.