One on One with Gregory Bell

dib:  What inspired you to write a history of Blacks on Wall Street?

GB:  When I was in college, I read a book about Reginald Lewis, he was the owner of a company called TLC Beatrice.  He had orchestrated the legendary leverage buyout of Beatrice International Holdings in 1987.  I read this book three or four times in 1998.  Coming from my background - my father was an investment banker - it was my thinking that there needed to be a book about the broader financial community.  There were stories that a lot of people didn't know - dating back to the fifties and sixties - stories that people should know about.  Wiley had published the Reginald Lewis book, so I went to them with a proposal, and Black Enterprise got involved.  That's basically how I got started.

dib:  You mentioned your father, tell me about him.

GB:  My father was named Travis Bell, Jr.  He co-founded a firm called Daniels & Bell, which became the first Black owned member firm on the New York Stock Exchange.  I'm proud to say that a lot of people credit my father with opening up the municipal bond market for Black and minority owned firms. 

He grew up in Chicago and entered the business the way a lot of people entered the business in the sixties, which was by accident.  In 1960, my father was 18 years old.  He was on his way to teacher's college, and he got a job as a messenger.  On his first delivery, he had a briefcase filled with papers.  He didn't think much of it, but when he delivered it, and the recipient looked inside and handed over a certified check for $175,000.  My father was amazed that there was a business in America where people paid money for paper.  He instantly became interested in the business, and that's how things worked out.  The kids in my father's neighborhood had no exposure to Wall Street.  My father got his start strictly by accident.  He went on to have numerous accomplishments.  Reverend Jackson once called him the Jackie Robinson of Wall Street. 

dib:  What were the steps your father took to acquaint himself with Wall Street?

GB:  He had two things going for him.  The founder of the company where he worked pulled him aside and told him that he would teach him the business.  So, one, my father had a mentor.  That's a lesson I've learned: find a mentor.  Two, my father stayed late and read everything he could about business.  He lived in the office.  That's how he broke into the industry.

dib:  You wrote about a number of people besides your father.  Are there any commonalities among their experiences?

GB:  Yeah.  I'd say they all lacked common sense.  The prevailing opinion was what they were trying to do was impossible.  One of the definitions of a visionary is someone who can see things other people can't.  That's also the definition of crazy.  A lot of people thought these Black pioneers were crazy.  They were obviously all talented and smart, but they all had a strong work ethic and an ability to keep knocking their heads against the same wall over and over again.  Even though they could get down about it, they all had the perseverance to go on where a lot of other people would have quit.  People like Travis Bell, Maynard Jackson, Russell Goings, Jr., and Jonathan Rogers were out there creating new markets.  It was tough, but they all had amazing perseverance.

dib:  Did the men you write about succeed by creating companies that pursued traditional money sources, or did they try to develop the African American market?

GB:  Both.  There are two stages of this history.  Beginning in the fifties, when the first Black firms entered the business, they sought the Black retail market.  Firms like McGhee & Company, and Special Markets, Inc. faced a lot of resistance because one, African Americans didn't have the money to invest like other groups; and two, African Americans really didn't understand Wall Street.  If African Americans had pay increases, they used the money to improve living conditions rather than buy stocks.  Those two firms went out of businesses during the recession of the early 1970s.  The lesson learned from those early firms was you can't focus only on the Black retail market.  At some point, you have to plug into the economic mainstream.  Later firms sought to do both.  They sought to help their brothers and sisters by getting their business, educating them, and hiring them; and two, by going after the big accounts.  That's how Black firms progressed from stage one to stage two.

dib:  Of all the stories you write about in your book, which one stands out in your mind?

GB:  I love the story about Joe Seals who is the first Black member of the New York Stock Exchange.  When it was announced, his biggest fear, and the Exchange's biggest fear was where he would sit at the luncheon club - in 1970.  Obviously, no other African American had ever been in there who wasn't waiting on tables.  For the first few weeks after his membership, if you went into the luncheon club, you would see all of the Street's elites having lunch, chatting and exchanging contacts, and then you would see this one table with an African American sitting by himself.  I think that sums it up.  Being a pioneer can be very lonely.  That's part of the battle you have to go through.

dib:  The thing I find surprising about that story is that the year was 1970 - that wasn't that long ago. 

GB:   Progress on Wall Street always lagged behind progress in other professions like medicine and law, and that's partly because Blacks weren't exposed to Wall Street.  Medicine and law are part of everyday life.  If you get sick, you see a doctor.  If you are stopped at a stoplight, that's part of the law.  African Americans went for decades without buying stocks or reading about stocks.  The first Black member of the Stock Exchange was 1970.  Frank Rains was the first partner at a major firm -  Lazard.  That was 1985.  By the 1980s, there were less than ten Black managing directors at the big firms.  Wall Street clearly has a lot of work to do to catch up with the rest of society.

dib:  Have things improved significantly on Wall Street since the 1970s?

GB:  There continues to be high barriers to Black participation, and it's not a question of talent.  Frank Board, who use to be Treasurer for the State of Connecticut, once told me that talent is equally distributed, opportunity is not.  I think the numbers on Wall Street still represent that, but there is greater awareness of the need for change.  While some of the initial barriers have been broken, some of the larger, more complicated issues still remain.

dib:  Are there lessons in your book for the average person - say, someone who doesn't have an interest in Wall Street?

GB:  Yes, I think there are lessons one can glean from the book.  Without going into clichés, one sees that hard work and perseverance are required to overcome obstacles and to succeed.  Beyond that, I think it is also important to give back.  A lot of the progress came about because people like Maynard Jackson and Harold Washington traveled down a certain path and they looked back to see who they could help cross the bridges that they crossed.  It's something I try to do and hope others will too.

dib:  Thank you, Gregory, for sharing your stories.  Good luck with the book and with your writing.